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Scales Q&A Session
Nov. 27th, 2023 08:09 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
pangolin20Kalinara said it might be a nice idea to put up a Q&A thread for people who'd like to know more about my co-sporkers, so here it is! Ask away, at any time you may want.
Nov. 27th, 2023
pangolin20kalinaraSo here we are! The ending! It's been a pretty wild ride! And as I said in my Sojourn review, I've got to choose some replacements. Right now, I'm leaning toward the next Pern book as well as Fugitive Prince, the next book in the Janny Wurts doorstop series that I love and love to mock. (I promised someone. :-D)
I definitely intend to add the Cleric Quintet to my list though, because it will be really interesting to see Salvatore tackling characters that aren't Drizzt or Drizzt-adjacent. But that's a tangent, because I still have a book to finish.
On the plus side, pretty much all the action is done. Now we're getting reunions and closure. Let's see how satisfying it'll be!
( Any bets? )
I definitely intend to add the Cleric Quintet to my list though, because it will be really interesting to see Salvatore tackling characters that aren't Drizzt or Drizzt-adjacent. But that's a tangent, because I still have a book to finish.
On the plus side, pretty much all the action is done. Now we're getting reunions and closure. Let's see how satisfying it'll be!
( Any bets? )
Pride of Princes - Verdict
Nov. 27th, 2023 11:38 pmkalinaraPrior to Pride of Princes, the Cheysuli novels followed a Star Trek movie style pattern of crappy odd numbered book vs. readable even numbered book.
If we continue with this pattern, Pride of Princes parallels the Final Frontier, widely acknowledged to be the worst of the Star Trek movies.
Well. It breaks the pattern. Because Pride of Princes is actually a very readable book. To be honest, I think it might actually be the best book in the series so far.
So let's talk about what worked and what didn't.
First, let's go into the characters:
To be honest with you, I think this is where the book really shines. The characters are all vivid and layered. They have strengths and flaws that make sense and consistently demonstrated. I can't think of a single "informed attribute" except maybe Hart's likability.
Brennan is my favorite. I admit that. It's why I have a perpetual grudge against that one reviewer who tackled this series for Tor's website some years back. I can't help it. Over-responsible, uptight and repressed is kind of catnip to me. I was a Cyclops fan before he was cool.
But mostly what I liked about Brennan was his compassion and empathy. Sure, he was a pompous dick, but the novelty of a main character in THIS series who not only cares about a woman's consent and wellbeing, but actively tries to help (if clumsily) is something I can't resist. And while this isn't actually about Pride of Princes, as I recall, Roberson does not actually drop the idea of Brennan trying to convince the Cheysuli to change their stance on disability. I don't actually remember if he succeeds, but it does come up again.
Brennan's the only one of the brothers who doesn't really get a triumphant moment in Valgaard, but I don't necessarily think he needs one. His moment was later, when Corin, delirious and suffering begs for forgiveness and comfort and he's given it without hesitation. That's Brennan's moment.
Also he's the only one who actually treats Maeve like a real person.
I thought I'd have the toughest time with Corin, as an only child, I've never really been able to relate to sibling jealousy themes. And Corin has a chip on his shoulder from day one. But I think his growth arc is impressive. I enjoy his self-awareness even in his pettier moments, and I definitely appreciated how his answer to a kidnap attempt was to throw himself off a cliff.
I loved Aileen. We've seen the formula before: Donal had Aislinn and Sorcha. Niall had Gisella and Deirdre. Brennan has Aileen and Rhiannon. But for once, the woman actually gets to have desires of her own. Aileen has Brennan and Corin. I kind of like that.
I've said it before, the problem with Donal wasn't his infidelity (it wasn't great, but this is a series that started with how many heroic rapists?), but the fact that we were never given the chance to understand why or how this happened. Roberson did a much better job in Track of the White Wolf, where we got to appreciate what Niall sees in Deirdre. She does an even better job here.
I understood Brennan's relationship with Rhiannon (the consensual aspects, I mean). I understood Aileen's with Corin. And the fact that it's mutual (though admittedly, setting sexism means Aileen couldn't actually get laid), gives it an interesting balance.
Aileen gets to have a personality. She gets to have wants and fears of her own. She reminds me of Aislinn, in that she gets to have a presence that most of the women in this series seems to lack. I love her.
Rhiannon - I hate her intro because I think it's lazy. I like an unreliable narrator, but I don't like when the narration outright lies to us.
That said, I think Rhiannon's a great villain. On reread, you can really appreciate the levels of manipulation - how clearly and thoroughly she played Brennan from the beginning (or at least from their reunion and his initial captivity.). She's horrible but in the best way, and I kind of love how when it comes to psychological damage and actually accomplishing their goals, Lillith and Rhiannon are infinitely more effective than Tynstar and Strahan.
(I hesitated about including Rhiannon in this write up, but if you look at the family tree in the back of the book, it spoils everything anyway. If you're like me and like to read glossaries and such first, oops.)
Ilsa suffers in comparison with the other two ladies only because they're such strong characters. But Ilsa has her own appeal. I like that she has very clear goals and very clear values and she doesn't veer from them. Everything she does makes sense and I think she'll be a great ruler of Solinde.
So. The downside then...
Hart. It's not that Hart is a bad character. He's not. He's actually a really good one. His addiction plot is really well written. It's hard to read, because it's so damn frustrating. And Hart himself is so self-centered and blithe and unconcerned about anything he should care about. It's annoying. But that's the character at the start of the journey.
The problem is, he never really gets to take that journey. He does start to make some motions in that direction right before his kidnapping, but he never gets to finish it. That's a damn shame.
But all in all, I think the characters are great. And heck, as annoying as I find Hart, he's not a rapist or an abuser. So there's that. The only rapists and abusers in the cast are the villains! Yay!
--
I have less to say about the plot, to be honest. The three protagonist structure was a great way to avoid Track of the White Wolf's flood of plots. By splitting up the story, each protagonist could have their own mini-plot before everything converged.
Overall, I think it worked well. Brennan and Corin's were great and had a lot of interesting (if dark at times) parallels. Hart's the odd man out. His plots were just too big. There was no way to give him a satisfying ending in the space allotted for him, and that's a shame.
The Valgaard plot was good though, very suspenseful, very dangerous. I liked how each character's experience was fundamentally different. I said before, I thought it was very clever how Roberson addresses Brennan's experience in particular. Given that character is so closed-mouthed about everything already, the fact that we never really get any detail about his stint in captivity prior to Corin's arrival feels right. What we do learn basically comes from his reactions - the desperate starved reaction to the food, the fact that he seemed impressed by his brother's shit bucket, that kind of thing. The narration becomes characterization at that point, and it's great.
So yeah, I stand by what I said. Pride of Princes doesn't just break the pattern, it blows it out of the water. Best book of the series so far and I am actually, honestly looking forward to seeing how the later books develop.
If we continue with this pattern, Pride of Princes parallels the Final Frontier, widely acknowledged to be the worst of the Star Trek movies.
Well. It breaks the pattern. Because Pride of Princes is actually a very readable book. To be honest, I think it might actually be the best book in the series so far.
So let's talk about what worked and what didn't.
First, let's go into the characters:
To be honest with you, I think this is where the book really shines. The characters are all vivid and layered. They have strengths and flaws that make sense and consistently demonstrated. I can't think of a single "informed attribute" except maybe Hart's likability.
Brennan is my favorite. I admit that. It's why I have a perpetual grudge against that one reviewer who tackled this series for Tor's website some years back. I can't help it. Over-responsible, uptight and repressed is kind of catnip to me. I was a Cyclops fan before he was cool.
But mostly what I liked about Brennan was his compassion and empathy. Sure, he was a pompous dick, but the novelty of a main character in THIS series who not only cares about a woman's consent and wellbeing, but actively tries to help (if clumsily) is something I can't resist. And while this isn't actually about Pride of Princes, as I recall, Roberson does not actually drop the idea of Brennan trying to convince the Cheysuli to change their stance on disability. I don't actually remember if he succeeds, but it does come up again.
Brennan's the only one of the brothers who doesn't really get a triumphant moment in Valgaard, but I don't necessarily think he needs one. His moment was later, when Corin, delirious and suffering begs for forgiveness and comfort and he's given it without hesitation. That's Brennan's moment.
Also he's the only one who actually treats Maeve like a real person.
I thought I'd have the toughest time with Corin, as an only child, I've never really been able to relate to sibling jealousy themes. And Corin has a chip on his shoulder from day one. But I think his growth arc is impressive. I enjoy his self-awareness even in his pettier moments, and I definitely appreciated how his answer to a kidnap attempt was to throw himself off a cliff.
I loved Aileen. We've seen the formula before: Donal had Aislinn and Sorcha. Niall had Gisella and Deirdre. Brennan has Aileen and Rhiannon. But for once, the woman actually gets to have desires of her own. Aileen has Brennan and Corin. I kind of like that.
I've said it before, the problem with Donal wasn't his infidelity (it wasn't great, but this is a series that started with how many heroic rapists?), but the fact that we were never given the chance to understand why or how this happened. Roberson did a much better job in Track of the White Wolf, where we got to appreciate what Niall sees in Deirdre. She does an even better job here.
I understood Brennan's relationship with Rhiannon (the consensual aspects, I mean). I understood Aileen's with Corin. And the fact that it's mutual (though admittedly, setting sexism means Aileen couldn't actually get laid), gives it an interesting balance.
Aileen gets to have a personality. She gets to have wants and fears of her own. She reminds me of Aislinn, in that she gets to have a presence that most of the women in this series seems to lack. I love her.
Rhiannon - I hate her intro because I think it's lazy. I like an unreliable narrator, but I don't like when the narration outright lies to us.
That said, I think Rhiannon's a great villain. On reread, you can really appreciate the levels of manipulation - how clearly and thoroughly she played Brennan from the beginning (or at least from their reunion and his initial captivity.). She's horrible but in the best way, and I kind of love how when it comes to psychological damage and actually accomplishing their goals, Lillith and Rhiannon are infinitely more effective than Tynstar and Strahan.
(I hesitated about including Rhiannon in this write up, but if you look at the family tree in the back of the book, it spoils everything anyway. If you're like me and like to read glossaries and such first, oops.)
Ilsa suffers in comparison with the other two ladies only because they're such strong characters. But Ilsa has her own appeal. I like that she has very clear goals and very clear values and she doesn't veer from them. Everything she does makes sense and I think she'll be a great ruler of Solinde.
So. The downside then...
Hart. It's not that Hart is a bad character. He's not. He's actually a really good one. His addiction plot is really well written. It's hard to read, because it's so damn frustrating. And Hart himself is so self-centered and blithe and unconcerned about anything he should care about. It's annoying. But that's the character at the start of the journey.
The problem is, he never really gets to take that journey. He does start to make some motions in that direction right before his kidnapping, but he never gets to finish it. That's a damn shame.
But all in all, I think the characters are great. And heck, as annoying as I find Hart, he's not a rapist or an abuser. So there's that. The only rapists and abusers in the cast are the villains! Yay!
--
I have less to say about the plot, to be honest. The three protagonist structure was a great way to avoid Track of the White Wolf's flood of plots. By splitting up the story, each protagonist could have their own mini-plot before everything converged.
Overall, I think it worked well. Brennan and Corin's were great and had a lot of interesting (if dark at times) parallels. Hart's the odd man out. His plots were just too big. There was no way to give him a satisfying ending in the space allotted for him, and that's a shame.
The Valgaard plot was good though, very suspenseful, very dangerous. I liked how each character's experience was fundamentally different. I said before, I thought it was very clever how Roberson addresses Brennan's experience in particular. Given that character is so closed-mouthed about everything already, the fact that we never really get any detail about his stint in captivity prior to Corin's arrival feels right. What we do learn basically comes from his reactions - the desperate starved reaction to the food, the fact that he seemed impressed by his brother's shit bucket, that kind of thing. The narration becomes characterization at that point, and it's great.
So yeah, I stand by what I said. Pride of Princes doesn't just break the pattern, it blows it out of the water. Best book of the series so far and I am actually, honestly looking forward to seeing how the later books develop.